Free steering wheel play is necessary


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Hi guys!
I have a question: I'm sure you all know that over the years the steering wheel can be turned more and more to the left and right in the middle position without the wheels noticing anything. Sure, it's only centimeters (if at all) but in wind and weather in connection with increased speeds it's not that nice! So my question: what can you do there? Can it be helped?

I'll be surprised what you write / what you can do there!

Have a nice evening!

Sven

hi sven,
actually you shouldn't do anything about it yourself, the whole thing is too difficult because the screw is set with a measuring device (torque).
unscrew the screw = less play.
screw in the screw = more play.
You can get the middle game out, but the steering wheel runs more heavily and it doesn’t go back alone (too difficult) after taking a curve.
went through that with my G.

Hello!
I still know what a torque wrench is - after all, I'm a trainee in a Land Rover workshop. Why haven't I asked about that yet? On the one hand, it occurred to me yesterday after work and since I have school today I don't come to the company today. On the other hand, that's a thing for us. On the one hand, our masters (Volvo and Land Rover) are constantly under stress and I don't have any time after work. On the other hand, I often have the feeling that my questions are met with little understanding and willingness.
Anyway!
Then why is the steering more difficult to move? More servo oil in the system or where is it? It makes sense that the steering wheel quickly turns back to directional stability (especially off-road). A steering wheel that shakes on the main road is not great either!

Beautiful headstrong cars !!!

Sven

Original from Harzlandy
actually you shouldn't do anything about it yourself, the whole thing is too difficult because the screw is set with a measuring device (torque).
unscrew the screw = less play.
screw in the screw = more play.
You can get the middle game out, but the steering wheel runs more heavily and it doesn’t go back alone (too difficult) after taking a curve.
went through that with my G.
Man man man, if you have no idea about it, you shouldn't answer on such topics! 8o

First of all, it has to be determined where the game comes from. Usually the ball heads of the tie rods are affected. Secondly, the Panhard staff recordings. Thirdly, the universal joints of the steering column must be checked. If necessary, also the steering knuckles and wheel bearings.
If all of this is really 100 Pro, then go to a specialist and have the steering gear checked. Doing it yourself without experience goes in the pants!

But in 99.9% the aforementioned components are affected. Anyone who tinkers with the LG without checking (harzlandy's instructions are completely wrong) breaks more than he would like, and is also at risk of death!

Hello Rainer!
Absolutely correct ! If you don't know what you're doing, please keep your hands off the steering gear!

But for the G, the direction that Harzlandy writes is correct. Nevertheless, if the gearbox is so tight in the middle position that it becomes stiff, it is set too tight and does not go along with it for long.

hi rainer,
hi polar bear,

It was not an instruction to screw it yourself, but as you can see it is a hint to leave it to a specialist company.
It is also correct that a steering game should first be found in other wear parts, I totally agree with you.

Original from Eisbär
But for the G, the direction that Harzlandy writes is right.
But we are not with the G. And that is why such hints are just frivolous. In another forum I saw such tips being carried out without hesitation. After all, "the boys know about it". It was recommended to set the LG at full impact. In the middle it was ok 8o

But I think Harzlandy understood that. Brakes and steering are not to be trifled with.

enjoy the meal!
I think I got it too!
I'll ask around at the company after all. Maybe something can be learned!

I thank you!

Sven

Hello Sven,
After extensive research in the forum, I read your question about the steering game, which also concerns me. I have exactly the same problem, only that I can now speak of several centimeters of steering play to the right and left in a straight line. My TD 5 now has 160 Tkm on the clock. Perhaps you can tell me about your experiences or how you were able to normalize the steering play again.
I would be very grateful for an answer.

Have a nice evening!

humpback ketch

Hmmmmmmm ...

I have to admit, I didn’t deal with it at all back then and I didn’t even deal with the car anymore ...
My "new one" has a few thousand kilometers more on the clock (it is now at around 167,000), but here the game is not as big as it was back then in the "old one".
In that case, however, the game didn't get any bigger or worse by the time it was sold.

Unfortunately I can't help you ...

Still have a nice Sunday evening!
Greeting,
Sven

I have exactly the same problem, only that I can now speak of several centimeters of steering play to the right and left in a straight line.

You will need an additional person to troubleshoot. One has to turn the steering wheel in one direction, the other has to watch when the wheels start to move. You should then remember this steering position. Then always turn the steering wheel straight ahead to the point where the wheels are moving. During these movements you should look closely at the ball heads. In this way you can roughly determine how far the steering energy is. As was already noted in 2007, the fault usually lies in the knocked out ball heads.

m01m

Hello
I have the same problem since it got cold at the end of November, the steering wheel has about 2-3 cm of play when it is stationary.
A slight correction is required when driving out of a curve and when driving straight ahead.
I'm curious whether some still have the same thing and what solutions are available.

We also had a similarly big game in steering. This game could not be provoked while standing.
Since a new Panhard rod had to be put in because of the elevation, it was exchanged. The new rod has the original rubber bearing on the axle side and a uniball on the frame side (available in the UK).
Since this rebuild the game is almost at zero !!!!!
To do this, the axle is again centered under the car.
If you have a lot of play, you should probably check / replace the bearings of the panhard rod. The costs at paddocks n apple and n egg and pressing out / pressing the bearings makes every free workshop for ten in the coffee box.

Hello,

hang me here. My TD4 (Jan. 09) just got a new steering gear due to oil leakage on guarantee. Before the exchange, he ran straight ahead, had no play in the straight line and was as smooth as a car. After the conversion, mushy tough steering and a life of its own when running straight ahead (depending on the inclination and condition of the road or wind) which could also be corrected ugly, as he had about 2.5 cm of play in a straight line. That the handlebars was a bit crooked rounded off the whole thing.

So go back and complain. Picked up again today. The handlebar is straight, but the steering is no longer mushy, but a little more difficult to move than before. The straight-line clearance is only about 0.7 cm, but it runs very smoothly.

Is that the normal spread of the LR steering gears or are they not able to install it properly? Addition: 20,000km and (as far as I can tell) no play in the steering linkage yet.

greeting
Peter

The way you describe it, there is something fishy. 0.7cm on the steering wheel rim seems to me to be too much for a newly installed steering system.
What is not clear from your explanation, how do you check the game? While driving?

Yes - no laughing - but on the first try it was two of my fingers and now after the second try a good one remains. Just a good road, I can wiggle about 0.7 from stop to stop without the load rocking. Stop = stiff starts.

There was nothing with the old steering gear, that is to say, Fuhre wiggled during the game test.

clearer ??

Kind regards
Peter

That sounds like ignoring the steering center position and then `` screwing away '' the game. (As far as one can say that as remote diagnosis.) When turning in one direction, is the steering a little harder to move than in the other?

Summarize again. Hopefully more understandable. The steering gear was replaced under warranty because it was leaking.

Unfortunately, the first attempt by the friendly one went a little wrong. Only several weeks of waiting for the gearbox. After the replacement, I noticed on the way home that the handlebars (on the original wreath) had a surprising amount of play when driving straight ahead, around 2.5 cm. The whole thing wasn't centered either, as the handlebars had to be moved back and forth between a few mm to the left and a good 2 cm to the right of the optical center in order to be able to influence the direction of travel only from then on. Especially with the changing incline of the lane (left / right), bumpy stretches or ruts, I experienced a hitherto completely unknown nervousness from the vehicle. That is to say, a clear self-will as far as the interpretation of the direction of travel specified by the coachman is concerned. Outside of the proper steering play, i.e. in the area where it then steers, it was not only stiff but also uneven in the steering resistance when turning. The latter probably means the polar bear? When checking at home with a flashlight, I also noticed play in the thing stick, which, viewed from the front, supports the axis from right to left (I can't think of name).

So back to the friendly and second attempt. First he had to replace the vacuum pump, as it gave up the ghost, i.e. the seal, on the way to the workshop. Engine compartment etc., everything full of oil. Better that way than soon in Morocco, but not really suitable to remedy my beginning depression. Briefly felt the desire to step against it. Left it for the sake of my foot ...
So the friendly screwed up and I picked up the English Bob there in the evening the day before yesterday. On the way home, the handlebars are now straight ahead, with the remaining 1 cm of play (again on the steering rim, when driving straight ahead) evenly left / right. The game still leads to an (un) healthy life of its own for the fat man if he should actually follow his master’s wish. Even if not to the same extent as before. Outside of the game, in the effective area of ​​the steering, it is now even (left / right) but very tight. So I have to actively turn the handlebars back after turning it!

This morning I was in our handicraft hall (Barras also has advantages) and looked at it in peace (and heated). I checked all nuts in the linkage for tight fit. Not only did I show the English Bob the pipe extension to intimidate him, but also used it. Nothing wobbles there. If you move the handlebars back and forth during play, no turning movement can be seen at the steering gear output. So the problem is probably in the steering gear or ???

Third try. The friendly one has now ordered a new steering gear again ...
(to be continued)

If anyone has any advice (with a "t"), bring it on.

greeting
Peter

Hi everyone,

I'm also very interested in the topic.
Our Td5 110SW has approx. 2 - 3 cm steering play even when stationary and when driving in ruts you sometimes have to be very attentive.

We also complained about it in the workshop when we bought it and they probably also replaced some rubber mounts. Then it got better, but we are still at the 2-3 cm at the moment.
When we asked again there we were told that was normal.
With my almost new Td4, I also have about 1 cm of steering play, so we just took note of it.

So my question:
How much steering play should / can be normal?

Lg.
Chris

Especially good road, I can wiggle about 0.7 from stop to stop without the load rocking.
So very slowly, you CANNOT define steering play while driving! Who does something like that doesn't know what he's doing.
Steering play is only checked when the vehicle is stationary and the steering is just adjusted. According to the TÜV, there may be play of up to 30mm on the steering wheel rim.
Possible defects are: steering column (small cardan joints) ball heads of the steering tie rod, ball heads of the tie rod, Panhard rod fastenings, steering knuckle joints, wheel bearings, and finally the LG itself.

In the reactions you describe to bumps in the road, the Panhard rod mount on the driver's side is usually loose.

Oh, almost forgotten, brand new LGs that have not yet covered a kilometer are sometimes a bit tight. But that will change over time.

Hi Chris,

Can only tell you that my English Bob at the tender age of one year until the exchange had barely noticeable play while driving straight ahead and was completely insensitive to ruts and cross winds. Otherwise, the steering was easy as in most cars and therefore had an effective restoring force. I want to go back there first.

He only had a bit of play when the engine was stopped and the steering was turned, but that didn't matter.

As far as I can see now, every movement in the steering gear should be detectable at the bottom of the exit. In the "entablature" it then depends on the condition of the joints and on the absolutely tight fit of the bolts and nuts, especially with the Panhard rod (that was the name!), Whether it runs smoothly.

If you know better, you can correct me ...

Kind regards
Peter

... now it has overlapped. But it is as just described: Before that, no play and great straight-line stability and now play and clear sensitivities. Objectively, this can be determined very easily while driving. Then he knows what he is doing: compare before and after. The Panhard stick is meanwhile again - as described - crack-proof.

Kind regards
Peter

Hi Peter,

well - we are probably not alone with the story.
I'm not really familiar with these technical details.
I also don't have the faintest idea what a Panhard stick is.

Our Td5 has around 80,000 km on the clock and I'm just not used to such a steering game. As written, when we heard the keyword steering play, our workshop immediately decided on some kind of rubber mount. This is apparently a well-known wear part and the thing must have been worn out.
It has gotten a lot better after the exchange, but especially on a transit road with us there are deep ruts from the trucks and when you are driving there you sometimes don't really have the feeling of absolute control. You're steering, and the Defender is going left or right.

Otherwise the steering works "normally". So not stiff or something ...

The "ruts road" with us is already extreme, and according to the workshop, the steering is okay.

That's why I'm interested in the experiences of others.

Lg.

Chris

Jau Chris,

Of course, the experts have their own methods and rules on how to measure something. Hopefully they will also keep this in mind when screwing in. But the bottom line is that my fat man ran straight ahead and now - after a repair - not anymore from now on. That cannot be denied, we will stick with it, they can measure how, when and where they want. At the end the coachman decides if it's OK again. is or not.

With an older semester there can of course be x causes and if it has practically already been bought it will be difficult. I'm dependent on the official LR dealer, because of the guarantee. But you could look for a really good Landyicopter because of the older one and invest an hour or two ...

Kind regards
Peter

So mine got new ball heads at 160000 before it was disastrous, lurching at over 100kmh ... after that everything was great, has been steering like no one for 40,000km ... although you don't notice the deterioration with daily use, it could be that something crept in Has ...

Peter meant exactly that (in the straight position game, when turning to the left or right the steering becomes backlash-free to tight) at the time the steering center position of the angular gear was not taken into account. What did you do afterwards? It may be that you first tried to `` screw away '' the play, that works, if not in the middle position, but only to a limited extent and may well have damaged the gearbox because you now have easy play in the straight position, but when you hit it If both directions become taut, it may be that the middle position is now correct.
Or did I read that wrong?

Is exactly right. In the middle very easy game and left and right outside of the game stiff. The middle position is now exactly in the middle. The English bob takes this middle game for his own idea of ​​"straight line running". One of us then has to constantly go beyond the game into the difficult areas to counter-steer.Before changing the steering gear, it ran straight ahead and only minimal corrections were necessary. He was totally insensitive to track grooves or cross winds.

And as already written, this game is also there when the vehicle is stationary, although no movement whatsoever can be seen at the output of the steering gear in this area of ​​play. There was also not a blatant transition from play to sluggish before; in fact, there was no transition at all.

greeting
Peter

In my case, the following part is broken (the rubber is torn and all the grease is outside) -> there is a lot of play

Now I don't know what this handlebar is called.

It is the first rod, as far as I know, it is followed by the Panhard rod and behind the axle is the tie rod, but what is the name of this first rod?
At Paddock you really get all these heads for little money ...


Thanks!

That's what the book says! So I would say annoy dealers until there is a backlash-free gearbox in the middle.

CHECK / ADJUST STEERING GEAR
Steering gear and pipes / hoses occurring
Check liquid.
Make sure that the steering gear is in a straight ahead position
There is no play. Adjust the steering gear, if
required. See STEERING, settings.

Now I don't know what this handlebar is called.
The ones from the steering gear to the steering knuckle: steering rod, steering tie rod or steering push rod. In the WHB it is called steering rod.
The ball heads are all the same except for the pitman arm, you just have to pay attention: they have left or right threads!

In the middle very easy game and left and right outside of the game stiff.
Such a LG just belongs in the bin!

Well, now you've added another new one. Result: This time the handlebars are slightly on the left (instead of right as before) and the steering has almost no noticeable play in the middle. Unfortunately, this is now so stiff that the restoring forces remain ineffective. That gives big arms and a badly angular tractor driving experience.

Since I have "fat" it after three attempts with my friend, I went straight to Matzger on the last Friday after picking it up. There I have - after an immediate inspection due to security - an appointment for next week to hire. Let's see...

Kind regards
Peter

RTC5869 should be the right one for `The Romanian´´

And Peter: I can't believe it's still not settled. Hopefully M will fix it now.

Great thank you...

The fact that the part fits on all rods explains why there is only such a small selection ...

At Paddock there is also a RTC5869G from Delphi, (Tie-rod tube end (track rod end) - Delphi Lockheed) costs about twice as much ...
Is it worth it? Or is that something else again?

@ peter,

that's the neverending story, but what I read between the lines you haven't given up hope (Matzker) yet.
I would be very interested in what will come of it!
Please keep us up to date when you have a result ...
If they can really do it there, I will probably not accept that the steering play is "normal", and look for someone who can really do it.

Lg. From Tyrol

Chris

No Name, Delphi + Lemförder are in the program, you should know yourself, but the cheapest one seemed too cheap to me.

So for me (DEF Td5 MJ 1999) the following spare part numbers were changed after 150,000 km:

- Tie rod joints RTC5869 (right-hand thread, as a left-hand thread would be RTC5870), approx. 27, -

- Steering column arm joint repair set RBG000010, approx. 46, -

D.

To come back to the problem with the steering gear ...

Since the weekend I still had a problem with the indicator. If you turned on to the right, it turned back much if you turned further to the right. Well, that's not supposed to - everything on the left is OK.

Today it was Matzger's turn. You adjust the steering gear and look at the indicator at the same time. In addition to the basic setting of the steering gear, the second cause for the strange behavior of the English Bob was quickly found. The handlebar had not been mounted in the socket provided for it but was on it. He slowly worked his way into the plastic beech. The first victim was the turn signal mechanism.

You have to introduce yourself! So everything replaced and properly assembled. Thanks to Matzger for finding and fixing it the first time. Now he drives the fat one again as he should and as he did before the three (!) Unsuitable attempts of another "friendly" person.

Morocco is now getting closer again ...

Kind regards
Peter

Hi Peter,

you will have a permanent grin on your face at the moment after the final success! :]

I'm really happy for you that it worked ...

I will also find out more about our Td5 and I will start with a little survey ...

lg.
Chris

Well, the front one was changed and the Landy now has the same directional stability as a new car.
However, while lying underneath, I noticed another one, covered by the underrun protection, which apparently is no longer intact.

Well, what kind of part is that, does the whole arm have to be exchanged?

Well, the front one was changed and the Landy now has the same directional stability as a new car.
However, while lying underneath, I noticed another one, covered by the underrun protection, which apparently is no longer intact.

Well, what kind of part is that, does the whole arm have to be exchanged?
Found the part:

Is a "drop arm" QFW000020 (RHD) or QFW000030 (LHD)

But the part is for right-hand drive people.

Had that changed before your post and also specified the left-hand drive version.

Since I need one for RHD I accidentally posted it first ...

Nope muttu don't do it again gives rep. Sentence (also with Pad ..). You don't even have to expand, because the arm refuses to expand from time to time.

To get this topic out of the blue again: The drop arm is pushed onto the LG with a spline and secured with a 34 (if it is not an inch) nut. I wanted to install the repair kit for the drop arm ball joint at the weekend, but I noticed that the drop arm has about 5 ° play on the spline and can also be easily moved up and down. So the mother was probably not properly tightened. Now the question: is the spline tapered so that the drop arm is clamped when the nut is tightened? Otherwise, I fear that the backlash in the splines and thus in the steering will reappear after a short time. A new drop arm would therefore also have to be installed.

Best regards
Samsara

Yes, the teeth are conical.

Yes, the teeth are conical.

Awesome that the arm loosens by itself, I've never heard of it! 8o
Good opportunity to expand the arm and then change the joint or a new arm right away.
Mother is a 33 with me. There is also a locking plate underneath, actually the arm cannot come loose ...

Greeting,

I followed the mother up a little today. By the way, locking plate is available! I also don't understand why it wasn't tightened. In any case, the bearings will be swapped on Thursday (the rubber has torn), so I didn't get my arm so tight now. Nevertheless, the steering play has clearly improved again. It's crazy what had added up with four broken ball heads and a loose drop arm (estimated 30-40 ° steering play!).

The nut would have to be a 1 5/16 "= 33.3 mm, since there is actually no 33 mm key and the nut in my case also had 33.2 mm. The 1 5/16" nut fit perfectly. Normally you always have it with you in the standard nut box * cough *> k

Best regards
Samsara

because there is normally no 33 key

They aren't that unusual either
http://up.picr.de/16269597sq.jpg

Small addendum: now that the ball joint on the drop arm has also been replaced and it has been correctly tightened on the steering gear, the steering play is almost zero. :)

Best regards
samsara

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