What caused the Greek dark age
Islam and the Dark Age of Byzantium
By John J. O'Neill, translated of Deep roots.
The original "Islam and the Dark Age of Byzantium “was published on October 7, 2009 by Gates of Vienna.
In his book "Mohammed et Charlemagne" of In 1936 the Belgian historian Heri Pirenne argued in great detail that theDark
age Europe suddenly came in the middle of the 7th centuryanderts began and that this sudden and catastrophic decline of the
Civilization at the blockade of the Mediterranean by the Islam lay. Until then, as Pirenne showed, there was no evidence of one
Decline of Classical Culture. It is true, the The western Roman Empire disappeared as a political unit in 476anden, but the
literate, wealthy and urban civilization, which we call the "classic", literally went on uninterrupted. The
Goths and other "barbaric" peoples who ruled the provinces of the west after 467 did not attempt Roman civilization
and destroy civil society. In fact, as Pirenne showed in great detail, they did everything in their power to help them
preserve. They adopted the Latin language, took on imperial titles from the emperor in Constantinople and minted gold coins,
which were adorned with the image of the Eastern Roman emperor.
Nevertheless, this flourishing late classical culture came in the seventh centuryandto a rather sudden end: the City life went back
as well as trade; replaced a barter economy the previous monetary system, and what was used in coins was made of silver
minted instead of gold; literacy declined as the papyrus disappeared from Egypt and expensive parchment finds its place
ingested; and the power of kings waned when local "strong men" or "barons" took the reins of power in the provinces.
The Middle Ages had begun.
Pirenne's great book, the was published posthumously, received mixed approval. In the large and Whole was admitted
that he's on something of seemed to have met with great importance. Still there was criticism and the criticism only increased over the years.
One of the most telling arguments against Pirenne was the question ofByzantium. Historians hastened to point out that, while
the regions of the west between the seventh and the tenth centuryandert a Darks age may have experienced the both
Regions of the east was not the case. There was no decline in Byzantium, they said. When the Arab blockade of the Mediterranean
had strangled classic urban civilization in the west, why didn't it have the same effect in the east? This was one
Question that didn't seem to have an easy answer. Even Pirenne believed that Byzantium somehow better dealt with the Arabs
became than the West. In his day it was widely believed that classical civilization in the east had survived and
that the region has been less “medievalized” than the West. We will of the historians informed, or were the until
recently that the eighth, ninth and tenth centuryandert in Byzantium, after the words of Sidney Painter, “Three Glorious Yearsanderte "
were and that during this time "the Byzantine Empire was the richest state in Europe, the strongest military power, and which by far
Most Cultivated. ”(Sidney Painter,“ A History of the Middle Ages, 284-1500 ”). We are further informed that “during this
three centuriesandwhile Western Europe was a land of partially tamed barbarians, the Byzantine Empire a highly civilized state
was where a most happy amalgamation of Christianity and Hellenism produced a fascinating culture. "(Ibid.)
The above opinions, which lasted until the second half of the twentieth centuryanderts were common, were partially of Byzantine
Propaganda evoked that always strove to be Constantinople as the To depict "New Rome" and as the successor to the
first Christian emperor Constantine in an unbroken line of authority. But during the past six monthsanderts has the
Archeology proved that this picture was an invention.
Indeed, we now know that the once a proud eastcourt of was devastated by the Arab attacks. Same poverty and same
Illiteracy that we find in the west is now also found in the east. Cities are in decline and the science
and Philosophy of the Greeks and Römer disappears. In fact, it sinks like the west Darks age down. In the words
of Cyril Mango:
“One can hardly overestimate the catastrophic break that occurred in the seventh centuryandert took place. Everyone who made the report of the events
reads will be affected of the calamities that the Infested, beginning with the Persian invasion at the very beginning of the
Centuryanderts, and continued with the Arab expansion some thirty years later - a series of Setbacks that the Empire of some
deprived of its richest provinces, namely Syria, Palestine, and Egypt and later North Africa - which makes it both in area and
Population has been reduced to less than half its previous size. But reading the narrative sources only gives one
a weak idea of the profound transformation that accompanied these events. ... She posed for the Byzantine
countries the End of a way of life - the urban civilization of antiquity - and the beginning of a very different one and clear
medieval world. ”(Cyril Mango,“ Byzantium, the Empire of New Rome ”, p. 4). Mango mentioned the literal job of the
Byzantine cities after the middle of the seventh centuryanderts, and the archaeological Fandthe location of these settlements
usually “a dramatic break in the seventh centuryandert, sometimes in the form of the literal abandonment of the settlement. "(ibid., p. 8)
With the cities and The intellectual class went to the papyrus supply from Egypt, which after the seventh centuryandert
was reduced to a “small clique” (ibid., p. 9). The evidence as Mango sees it is unmistakable: the "catastrophe" (as he
she calls) of the seventh centuryanderts "is the central event in Byzantine history. "(ibid.)
Constantinople itself, the mighty capital of the east with millions of millions, was until the middle of the eighth centuryanderts to a true one
Reduced ruin. Mango quotes a document from the time the an image of “abandonment and Ruin "conjured up. Again and
Again we learn that numerous monuments - statues, palaces, baths - once existed but were destroyed. Even more so, that
remaining monuments, of which many in the fourth and fifth centuryander must have arisen were no longer than the
understood what they were. You had a magical one and generally ominous connotation acquired. (ibid., p. 80)
So great was the destruction that even the bronze coins the everyday lubricants of economic life disappeared. Mango:
“At sites where there had been systematic excavations, such as Athens, Corinth, Sardis and others, it has been found that
Bronze coins, the Change used for everyday transactions throughout the sixth centuryandert and (dependent of local
Circumstances) until sometime in the seventh centuryander were abundant, after which they almost disappeared, then in the ninth
Centuryandert showed a slight increase and only in the late tenth centuryander have become frequent again. ”(ibid., pp. 72 - 73). Yet
must even the claim that some coins were in the ninth centuryandert showed up, should be treated with caution. Mango mentions
that at Sardis the period between 491 and 616 of 1,011 bronze coins is represented, the remainder of the seventh centuryanderts of
about 90, "andthe eighth and ninth centuryandput together of no more than 9. ”(ibid., p. 73) and“ has similar results
can be obtained from almost all Byzantine provincial towns. ”Even such poor examples as those from the eighth and ninth
Centuryandert survived (nine) are common of questionable origin, a fact that of Mango itself is mentioned that
noted that on closer inspection it often turns out that this is either from before the Darkn age originate or
from the time after.
If archaeological Fande in the middle of the tenth centuryandWhen they emerge again, the civilization they reveal is radical
changed: the old Byzantium late antiquity has disappearedanden, and we find one impoverished and semi-illiterate remnant; a
medieval Byzantium, strikingly similar to the medieval France, Germany and Italy, of which it was contemporary. Also
here we find a barter or semi-barter economy; a decline in population and Literacy and one
intolerant and theocratic state. And the break point is in Byzantium as in the west in the first half of the seventh centuryanderts -
what exactly the appearance of the Arabs and of Islams corresponds to the scene.
Archeology has therefore dramatically supported Pirenne, long after his death, and answered a question for him that he didn't
could answer. The effect of the Islamt was devastating to all of Christianity, both in the east and in the west. He was
the Event, the the classical civilization has ended. The destruction of classical culture in Europe lay largely, if not
totally, at the economic blockade of the Mediterranean by Muslim piracy. Still was the End of this culture in regions
like Egypt and Syria (formerly major centers of the classical and Hellenistic civilization) under the control of the Islams
got through the total contempt for the new beliefs towards cultures and the history of the peoples caused about the
he gained dominion. From the beginning, the Caliphate government in Egypt set up a commission whose purpose it was to dig graves
the time of the pharaohs to seek to plunder them. The destruction was so complete that it lasted little more than a yearandafter the
Islamic conquest no one in Egypt had any idea who built the Great Pyramid - this despite the fact that very much
extensive reports on this monument and the pharaoh who built it included in the works of many classical authors
were, especially with Herodotus and Diodorus Siculus. Immediately before the Muslim invasion were the libraries and Academies
of Egypt, Syria and Babylonia has been crammed with the works of these authors. Your disappearance andthe Disappearance of the
Knowledge, the they contained can only mean, as Christian polemicists did for yearsandhad long claimed that the Muslims
had purposely destroyed a large amount of classical literature.
In western Europe and in the east, in North Africa and in the Middle East, classical civilization came in the middle of the seventh
Centuryanderts to an end, and the Grand for their downfall can be summed up in one word: Islam.
"Holy Warriors: Islam and the Demise of Classical Civilization ", of John J. O’Neill (the link to Felibri Publications from the original thread
unfortunately no longer works; d. Ü.)
Comments from the original thread on "Gates of Vienna":
This essay only confirms what I have prophesied several times. That if the Islam power in Europe, countless and
priceless treasures, artifacts, works of art, books, music and what else of total destruction and Fall to destruction
become. Rembrandt, Velasquez, Bach, Mozart, Goethe, Shakespeare and many many more will burn and be lost forever.
Like everything scientific, Einstein, Galileo, Hawking and so on. This is what is at stake. In contrast to the last time
we won't rise again Civilization as we know it will at best belong to a mythical past.
Just look at the civilizations they conquered in the past. The Persians once had a great civilization in ancient times.
What are they now, except fanatical mahoandians. In two or three generations, the surviving ethnic Europeans
be just as brainwashed. And with the passing of every new yearanderts they will continue to grow
illiteracy and Reverse barbarism. With the takeover mahoandThey are involved in ianic customs such as cousin marriage
enough time to be inbred products just like them. That is why I believe that we are all in an eternal dark age
Gonna slide where we have no hope of ever getting out
I don't share your dystopian view of the future. Yes, I am concerned, but we are not just going to be absorbed into a herd.
Maybe it feels different in Europe, but here there is the Feeling that we can handle this in time. My only
The concern is that the Saudis will be quick enough the Oil runs out to a lot of to prevent whereof you fear it
Not every of God's problems is a Muslim. We have a ton of homegrown bad guys and stupid politician and
Laws more harmful than advancing the Islam.
The United States needs to clean up its house, reform itself and downsize our corrupt government andthe Advance
stop the law in private life.
There is evidence of a whole subgroupandcity in Turkey, as recently shown on the History Channel. Cavernous spaces that
were created to protect thousands from the robbers who attacked them. The rooms were of People created that
certainly were Christians after having religious works of art that of the Turks living above were disfigured when they were them
found. The people living above could in no way recreate these rooms. The engineering skill is beyond of all
what they understand. You can't look after anything but sheep.
I agree with Robin. How could the world change after that Islam revive? She wouldn't.
And the article says what I always say about the “great and glorious ”past of the Middle East suspected everything
Propaganda. It also strengthens my thoughts on the cruelty of the Inquisition. That they also have a reaction to the Islamic
Invasions was. It is no accident that the Christian leaders became ruthless only after the invasions in Italy, Constantinople, Spain, etc.
have become, in addition to the history of the Crusades. Most likely a reaction in the sense of the word of "if we the don't do there
there is no future. "
This also reminds me of the enormous gold hiding place, the recently found in the Middle Eastanden was made with coins dating from that time
come shortly after the founder of the Islams became powerful. When the soldiers of the Islams streaked, the owner hid the
Coin it, most likely in the hope that things would get better. Instead, he / she probably became
beheaded. In fact, there is just such a story in the hadiths.
In case you think that the Christianity will be able to revive, look at the place where the Christianity began. this is the
Future of Europe and of the west, if the Islam takes power.
If the western countries of the Islam cleaned will become do-gooders at some point in the future (most likely
Christians) trumpet what was done without understanding why, and they become the Islam welcome back with open arms
be called. Because after all it's Christian the to do. That is why there will never be a Christian Bethlehem again.
I will tell the author about the beginning of the Darkn ages must contradict in the Western Roman Empire. The location was in
later 5th centuryandIt's pretty gloomy.
The best work I've read so far was "The Fall of Rome" of Bryan Ward-Perkins. It's pure architectural history, what one
dry reading material is what it is worth if one is interested in the essence of the early medieval period of the West
The bottom line was that security had been lost and trade with her. The empire was - much like the United States is today - one
multinational economy that of Was dependent on goods from all over the empire. For example, were pottery and other ceramics
from Rome's British provinces of such high quality that they dominated the market. People heard all over the empire
on, pottery and Manufacture roof tiles, and bought the majority thereof from Britain. Even the poorest smallholders had
Plate of good quality, and modest houses had tile roofs (instead of thatched roofs).
Then came the collapse. No one could safely transport goods anymore, so there was no way to get British ceramics
to buy. The British, who no longer had a market, stopped making pottery and To produce roof tiles, whereby the Knowledge of theirs
Manufacturing got lost in history.
Fast forward by handert years, and you have a nobility who live in houses without tiled roofs and Pottery of such
bad quality used that they handyears earlier of would have been rejected by a Roman smallholder. Back then was
Ceramics, of Amphorae that can be used for storage and for transport of Goods used until they are used as building materials (roofs,
Soils, water pipes) important for the Life. The Loss of fine ceramics meant loss of Comfort and the loss of
I'm sorry for the lengthy comment ... but think about what would happen if the Islam it would make the world
destabilize sufficiently that trade collapses. What would the West be like in a generation or two? After this
our knowledge is now on electronic media, what would happen if we lost the ability to use the media
to save and to read? Over a thousand years ago, the Church managed to save manuscripts created in the rediscovery of the
classical culture helped during the Enlightenment. What will happen if there is nothing like it on the one in the future
Civilization is troublesome. Barbarism is the natural state of man.
The crossing of the architecture of the Roman villa to simple Anglo-Saxon wooden and Thatched roof buildings is a terrifying one
Lesson for modern Europeans.
Robin Shadowes, what you prophesied has already begun. Check out what Muslims have done in Kosovo and the
Muslim attacks against all institutions in Europe. TheIslam will eventually rule in Europe and do what he always does:
kill, suppress and to destroy.
Must agree with Newark here; the “crisis of the third centuryanderts ”is not some kind of anti-Christian fantasy. Just as little
it is the dramatic increase in appalling sectarian civil violence that surfaced as itself the Christianity spread (violence of
a variety completely unknown to pagan society). Neither did the depopulation of the formerly wealthy Westerners
Provinces. Or that the Western Empire granted independence to Britain voluntarily and thus admitting that it was no longer able to
was to defend the islands.
Claims that Roman culture of Antoninus until Justinian went on at the same level are just pretty
unfounded and stand against very easily verifiable facts.
Yes, the Gothic kingdoms after Augustulus tried of of Roman culture and Way of life to preserve what they could, but
it was a lot less thereof left, and Justinian's recaptures and took ruinous taxes the Last thereof path. The
The issue of coins clearly shows an increasing devaluation and Inflation all the time, what about the time of Diocletian and
Constantine reached ruinous rates. The economy was a mess - to the point that Diocletian decreed that people should not do their jobs
could switch more in an attempt to stabilize things (a crazy idea given by Ayn Rand in "Atlas Shrugged"). The
Islam expanded into a void created by the collapse; then as now he was one
At that time we had a Karl Martell. We'll have another one now, sooner or later. The only question is how far to go
before a backlash to systematic murder begins.
Edward Gibbon is still very readable.
When you compare history to what is happening now, there is one very important difference that all comparisons are wrong
makes. The depopulation of the west as a result of birth control. She changes everything. The barbarians do not control their population
and will eventually overrun the west.
1 or 2 children cannot stop the invasion. And the government doesn't want them to stop them.
@ S: That the educated upper classes do not reproduce is nothing new. Emperor Vespasian saw with great horror that the
Knight (Grandowners, large farmers, business owners) and Senator classes had too few children compared to the “mob”. He was leading one
Policy of financial incentives, paid out of the government purse, to encourage the upper classes to have more children.
Similar measures are in Japan, Russia and other countries have been discussed facing a demographic bombshell
Two things I read the other day (but I can't give links because my computer is doing some kind of update):
1) The birth rate in Iran is falling. It may already be below the maintenance level.
2) Can't remember why her the need to do, but Saudi Arabia is trying to borrow money.
Right, Dymphna, Iran is now well below the conservation level. You had a baby boom just in time
to fuel the war against Iraq; now this generation is entering later adult life, another 20 years, and Iran will
laden with a crippling load of old people and no longer have enough young to sustain them and not enough technology
to make up the difference (which Japan certainly has, and what the US and Europe could create). Similar things everywhere else in
the Islamic world: birth rates plummeting everywhere. Actually, I think Afghanistan and Somalia (?) The two places that are
still have fairly high birth rates; everywhere else they are falling.
Even the Mexican invasion of the US might not be such a big deal in the long run; given current birth rates
Mexico will run out of people before they can flood the majority of the US.
This article in the Brussels Journal is relevant I think:
As today, the enemies of civilization were an informal chaotic mob who were good at knocking down but having it all
tore down, they faded away. Those who survived the collapse were able to do something better and Stronger
Defeatism is wrong. All that is necessary is to stay on the ball, to build stable patriarchal families and raise the children like this
that they see clearly and are loyal to the law and their own people. This naturally leads to victory
By John J. O'Neill, translated by Deep Roots. The Islam and the Dark Age by Byzantium The original " Islam and the Dark Age of Byzantium" was published on October 7, 2009 by Gates of Vienna. In his book "Mohammed et Charlemagne" from 1936 the Belgian historian Heri Pirenne argued in great detail that the dark age Europe quite suddenly in the middle of the 7th century and erts began and that this sudden and catastrophic decline of civilization at the blockade of the Mediterranean by the Islam lay. Until then, as Pirenne showed, there was no evidence of a decline in classical culture. It is true, the Western Roman Empire was and en as a political entity in 476, but the literate, prosperous and urban civilization that we are Calling “classic” literally went on uninterrupted. The Goths and other "barbaric" peoples who ruled the provinces of the west after 467 did not attempt to destroy Roman civilization and civil society. In fact, as Pirenne showed in great detail, they did everything in their power to preserve it. They adopted the Latin language, accepted imperial titles from the emperor in Constantinople and minted gold coins adorned with the image of the Eastern Roman emperor. Nevertheless, in the seventh century, this flourishing late classical culture and ert came to a rather sudden end: city life declined, as did trade; a barter economy replaced the earlier monetary system, and what was used in coins was made of silver instead of gold; literacy declined as papyrus disappeared from Egypt and expensive parchment took its place; and the power of kings waned when local "strong men" or "barons" took the reins of power in the provinces. The Middle Ages had begun. Pirenne's great book, which was published posthumously, received mixed acclaim. On the whole and it was admitted that he appeared to have encountered something of great importance. Nevertheless, there was criticism, and the criticism only increased over the years. One of the most telling arguments against Pirenne was the question of by Byzantium . Historians hastened to point out that while the regions of the west were and a dark s between the seventh and the tenth centuries Era may have experienced that was not the case with the regions of the east. There was no decline in Byzantium , they said. If the Arab blockade of the Mediterranean had strangled classic urban civilization in the west, why didn't it have the same effect in the east? This was a question that didn't seem to have an easy answer. Even Pirenne believed that Byzantium somehow got on with the Arabs better than the West. In his day it was widely believed that classical civilization had survived in the east and that the region had been less "medievalized" than the west. We are informed by the historians, or were the until recently, that the eighth, ninth and tenth centuries and ert in Byzantium , according to the words by Sidney Painter, "three glorious years and erte" were and that during this time " the Byzantine Empire was the richest state in Europe, the strongest military power, and by far the most cultivated." (Sidney Painter, "A History of the Middle Ages, 284-1500"). We are further informed that “during these three centuries and ier, while Western Europe was a land of partially tamed barbarians, the Byzantine Empire was a highly civilized state where a most fortunate one Merging of Christianity and Hellenism produced a fascinating culture. ”(Ibid.) The above opinions, which and erts were common, were in part caused by Byzantine propaganda, which always sought to portray Constantinople as the "New Rome" and as the successor to the first Christian emperor Constantine in an unbroken line of authority. But over the past six months and erts, archeology has proven that this image was an invention. Indeed, we now know that the once proud Ostrom was devastated by the Arab attacks. The same poverty and the same illiteracy that we find in the west can now also be found in the east. Cities are in decline, and science and philosophy of the Greeks and Romans are disappearing. Indeed, like in the West, a Dark s Age is falling. In the words of by Cyril Mango: “One can hardly overestimate the catastrophic break that took place in the seventh century and ert. Anyone who reads the account of the events will be struck by the calamities that the empire, beginning with the Persian invasion at the very beginning of the 1st century AD
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