Obtain programmer jobs without a degree

Computer scientist without a degree?

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Odot23  πŸ“… 23.01.2018 23:29:18
Computer scientist without a degree?
Hello people, I have nothing against studying in principle, but I'm a big fan of practical experience because it is actually "tangible".

There are a large number of people who work in the various areas of computer science without studying. Does anyone know how it looks in practice with them? Do you earn less / is treated worse / etc?

I'm currently trying to find out for myself which path I want to go, whether I should really go through a classic course of study, hence the whole question.

thanks
Re: Computer scientist without a degree?
Don't you mean an apprenticeship like IT specialist or is it just about studying?
The new student  πŸ“… 24.01.2018 02:14:04
Re: Computer scientist without a degree?
I trained as an IT specialist in application development. Company: Well-known industry software manufacturer. Degree: best in class. After that, I worked as a software developer in a very nice, small company until my studies. ~ 2800 € gross southern Germany. In a larger company there might have been more, but it is often difficult to get into it as a young professional with an apprenticeship.

If you are very good during and after your apprenticeship, you can also go a long way with an apprenticeship. I also know two who, after graduating, head the IT department of a medium-sized company. So it works.

However, you start higher after studying computer science, about 3500 € gross are usually already included (what I have heard), even though you do the same job with the same competence (if you are good) after completing your training someone who just has a bachelor's degree. I think that's unfair. It is quite possible, however, that the salary difference would have been put into perspective for me over time, or that it depended on how good I actually am, and that the qualification would then have become less important. In turn, the large, well-known companies, e.g. the automotive industry, often promise great opportunities for advancement. And as a young professional with an apprenticeship, it is difficult to get into there.

In-company training is being phased out. At least for those who want to be financially recognized for what they can and achieve. Unfortunately, an apprenticeship is not considered to be an equivalent degree to a Bachelor's degree at all, even though good apprentices gain a lot of practical and usable experience in good companies. They say "He only has one training". I found out that they also think that way at vocational schools and keep the teaching level very low there so that every fool can pass. Because training is also extremely strenuous, I can only advise against training nowadays if you have a university entrance qualification. One prefers to study relaxed and then enjoy the prestige.

Hope that helped.

Greetings,
The new student
aldante  πŸ“… 24.01.2018 07:16:02
Re: Computer scientist without a degree?
Why not do a dual degree if practical experience is so important to you?

I'm not a computer scientist, but I will still add my mustard after I have a lot of computer scientists in my circle of friends:

I know very few computer scientists who are successful without a degree. To be precise, only one - but he took over his father's small business that was doing well. In my opinion, the problem is twofold: Firstly, it is much more difficult to acquire structured, meaningful knowledge completely without guidance, and secondly, you lack the certification, which is essential, especially if you are looking for a slightly more demanding position as an employee. As a self-employed person you certainly have more chances, but IMHO international competition will increase significantly. In addition, most of the IT specialists who have a career do not stay long in IT activities - most who have a career will then, after 5-10 years, become IT managers, consultants, CTOs, founders or the like is IMHO almost impossible.

I would therefore harness the horse from behind and think about what kind of activity is your goal. And what you can already do today. Then you can better assess what kind of training or degree you will get there with.
Re: Computer scientist without a degree?
From DerNeueStudent I trained as an IT specialist in application development. Company: Well-known industry software manufacturer. Degree: best in class. After that, I worked as a software developer in a very nice, small company until my studies. ~ 2800 € gross southern Germany. In a larger company there might have been more, but it is often difficult to get into it as a young professional with an apprenticeship.

If you are very good during and after your apprenticeship, you can also go a long way with an apprenticeship. I also know two who, after graduating, head the IT department of a medium-sized company. So it works.

However, you start higher after studying computer science, about 3500 € gross are usually already included (what I have heard), even though you do the same job with the same competence (if you are good) after completing your training someone who just has a bachelor's degree. I think that's unfair. It is quite possible, however, that the salary difference would have been put into perspective for me over time, or that it depends on how good I actually am, and that the qualification would then have become less important. In turn, the large, well-known companies, e.g. the automotive industry, often promise great opportunities for advancement. And as a young professional with an apprenticeship, it is difficult to get into there.

In-company training is being phased out. At least for those who want to be financially recognized for what they can and achieve. Unfortunately, an apprenticeship is not considered to be an equivalent degree to a Bachelor's degree at all, even though good apprentices gain a lot of practical and usable experience in good companies. They say "He only has one training". I found out that they also think that way at vocational schools and keep the level of teaching there very low so that every fool can pass. Because training is also extremely strenuous, I can only advise against training nowadays if you have a university entrance qualification. One prefers to study relaxed and then enjoy the prestige.

Hope that helped.

Greetings,
The new student
Sorry if I have to put it that way, but you can only have this opinion if you haven't studied. The difference between studying and training is extremely big, I can tell you that because I did both. So if you think you have what it takes, go to college and then we'll talk again. I can almost certainly tell you that you won't talk like that after you graduate. Incidentally, that does not mean that someone who has an apprenticeship is per se worse than someone who has studied.

On the subject:
It is now incredibly difficult to get a good job without studying computer science. The times of lateral entry are over and computer science has developed further in other ways. Computer science is pretty comprehensive and the course gives an overview and a good basis, so to speak.
The new student  πŸ“… 24.01.2018 12:21:09
Re: Computer scientist without a degree?
From SWEngineerSorry if I have to put it that way, but you can only have this opinion if you haven't studied. The difference between studying and
Education is extremely great, I can tell you that because I have both
have made. So if you think you have what it takes, go
but study and then we'll talk again. I can go with you
Almost certainly say that after graduation you won't be like that anymore
will talk. Incidentally, that does not mean that someone is with an apprenticeship
is worse per se than someone who has studied.


Hello SWEngineer,

it was clear that such a comment had to come. I can only speak of the area of ​​software development
but in which you are probably also at home, according to your name.

You definitely know which skills are important in the development profession.

Examples:
- Find a bug by debugging 1000 code files
- Understand software architecture and further develop it in a meaningful way
- Coordinate in a large development team ("agile")

In my opinion, this is best learned through practice and you have it in
plenty of training, provided you do your training in
a real software house. Things like compiler building you might
You simply cannot learn in your studies and not in your apprenticeship
need, and if they do, Wikipedia will help
In this profession, we will certainly agree that it is never important
to learn. New technologies keep coming and you can take the leap
do not miss. That also makes the job exciting.

I don't want to ruin my studies. Yet:
- In a course of study you don't have to toil for your boss for 40 hours a week,
for almost no payment (minimum wage does not apply here).
- You can organize your time yourself and have a lot more free time. None <= 30 days vacation.

I know well that you have to learn a lot during your studies. But learning is not
Work. If you are interested in the topic - and it should,
if you study it - then learning is almost like a hobby.

Greetings,
The new student
Re: Computer scientist without a degree?
But it is also much more about the formal education through the degree one achieves much more today.

And before I started studying, I also trained as an IT specialist.
Odot23  πŸ“… 24.01.2018 13:05:01
Re: Computer scientist without a degree?
Hello guys, thank you very much for your information.

I have been working as a consultant in the field of online marketing for years and therefore work very closely with tech people on a daily basis who implement different things for me or the customer. This is how I got interested in it and got a little insight into the day-to-day business on the "other" side.

The area in which I would most like to work is everything that has to do with the Internet and its applications. I assume that application informatics would also be the best fit then, right?

Here in Berlin I know a lot of people who are making good progress without proper studies, but I still wanted to get an opinion from third parties.

If I do a degree then only as a distance learning because I can't do it differently in terms of time and finances (I'm not giving up my 90sqm apartment and then crawling around like you Pennas on 12sqm). There is the Fernuni in Hagen but when I read the experience reports, many write that the knowledge there is quite out of date.

If that's true, a distance learning course there wouldn't do me any good because then I'm always one step slower than everyone else.

Here is an overview of the modules in the course:

https://www.fernuni-hagen.de/mi/studium/bsc_informatik/module.shtml

How do you see that?
Mediinf  πŸ“… 24.01.2018 13:23:42
Re: Computer scientist without a degree?
The whole thing is not really clear, as computer science is a broad term to which many also include IT.
If you really relate to pure computer science, it will be difficult to really break something without studying.
However, only a fraction of the people work in real IT jobs.